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SayweezyAOM
Gold Dot

105 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2009 :  08:38:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've been seeing lately more and more people starting their graffiti careers in their mid to late 20's, what's your guys feelings/opinions on this growing, what seems like, trend? I personally think it's a little ridiculous, no disrespect. But I just can't understand why some people would willingly choose to become a career criminal at such a "mature" age. I mean by 23,24,25 you should have some understanding of what's "right" and what's "wrong". It just doesn't make sense to me. I started writing seriously when I wasn oh about 15/16, before I could be charged as an adult. I've learned from some of the best writers in the city to better my skills, to become invisible when neccessary. So I can't see how someone in their mid to late 20's would want to start doing this? Can the old dawgs learn new tricks?

Just a little disclaimer, if you're in your 20's,30's,40's but have been bombing since your teens, that's what's up, that's called longevity, I'm not against that. It's the people who choose to bomb in their 20's/30's that I question.

W1DGET_THE_M1DGET
Pink Dot

Philippines
1122 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2009 :  10:14:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When ur young a heart i think it doesnt matter.

U think when cats get older they say oh well im like 40 now, i think my career is over?
Trust me, they sure dont.

I can understand where ur coming from tho, i wouldnt want to paint with anyone who doesnt know the consequence behind the action. When ur younger and get busted u start to gain the instinct of what to look out for and do just in case.

Its kinda like sayin be my lookout when the motha effer is blind and cant tell if its a cab or the blue lights, kno what i mean?

In other words...times change cops get somewhat smarter, we gotta learn to evolve as well.

Teach the youngins that it aint a game its serious business u rat me me out and ill murder u and ur crew.

As we grow older we got more at stake more to lose.

Most people here know what im talkin bout and for those who dont well one day maybe you'll figure it out.

Good thread say...

Peace.

The Coolest Guy west of the lake...and you can take that to the bank.
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FLASH ABC
Administrator (NYC Fat Cap)

USA
7600 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2009 :  1:35:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit FLASH ABC's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SayweezyAOM

I've been seeing lately more and more people starting their graffiti careers in their mid to late 20's, what's your guys feelings/opinions on this growing, what seems like, trend? I personally think it's a little ridiculous, no disrespect. But I just can't understand why some people would willingly choose to become a career criminal at such a "mature" age. I mean by 23,24,25 you should have some understanding of what's "right" and what's "wrong". It just doesn't make sense to me. I started writing seriously when I wasn oh about 15/16, before I could be charged as an adult. I've learned from some of the best writers in the city to better my skills, to become invisible when neccessary. So I can't see how someone in their mid to late 20's would want to start doing this? Can the old dawgs learn new tricks?

Just a little disclaimer, if you're in your 20's,30's,40's but have been bombing since your teens, that's what's up, that's called longevity, I'm not against that. It's the people who choose to bomb in their 20's/30's that I question.



Everything am remember for did I did between the age of 14-19 by the age of 20 i was in basic training

http://projectlogan.tumblr.com/
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SayweezyAOM
Gold Dot

105 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2009 :  1:47:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the insight Widgeonerockatothefifpower!I feel you on the young at heart deal. I guess that makes sense. But yeah like you stated, I now am entering my early 20's, and if I go painting I would honestly feel more comfortable bringing a rookie out with me than a more 'mature' person. Just for the idea that the young buck IS ON IT!!! Little dudes are so anxious and nervous they keep their eyes open like some owls! And an older brotha might be like, "Oh ef that noise, I got yo back, I saw beat street when that sh*t was in theaters". Ya know? Probably not? But Yeah older heads got a lot to lose and I guess that's what I don't get.

And FlashMoney that's what I'm talking about! By 19-20, that's when you as a writer should be training the next generation of vandals.

Edited by - SayweezyAOM on 11/05/2009 1:48:26 PM
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GATZ
Blue Dot

USA
703 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2009 :  12:03:31 AM  Show Profile  Visit GATZ's Homepage  Reply with Quote
this is a really good thread topic

but yea i feel you i dont really understand why some cats start out at an age in their 20s it seems a bit odd just because most of the time ppl start their graff carrer in their teen years and carry it on throught the rest. i also find it odd just because i think that their older than me they should no wats up when some older heads seem a bit behind on somethings

GATZ TIC
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REEM
Orange Dot

USA
660 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2009 :  07:06:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
BEING AN OLD SCHOOLER, I STILL LOOK UP TO THE CATS THAT WE RAN WITH. TAKE 2, SEEN, FLASH, B-BOY B, RISK,SLANG, TRIXTER, KATO OR ANYONE IN THE MAD CREW FOR THAT MATTER, SCARCE, HATE (R.I.P.) OR ANY DUDE THAT DIED IN THE GAME. OLD SCHOOLERS SEWN THE SEED. THERE ARE TO MANY TO NAME THAT MADE THIS FLOURISH. PIONEERS IF YOU WILL. ALL THE YOUNG HEADS WONT KNOW THE WRATH OF A SGT. ANGONE. A SUPER TRANSFER. THE GREEN TRAINS. GRIFFEN OR UNI WIDES. I GIVE ALL THE YOUNG GUYS MAD PROPS THOUGH WITH WORKING WITH WHAT THEY CAN. CITY HEAT. CAMS ON CORNERS. ANYWAYS, A LATE START WELL THAT TO ME IS SHORT TERM. LIKE A FAD ALMOST (THIS IS JUST MY OPINION). I SEEN MANY GUY START WRITING AT THE AGE OF 19 AN 20 JUST BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT WAS COOL. WE STARTED AT THE AGE OF 13 AND 14. BY 17 YOU WOULD RETIRE, BUT THAT NEVER REALLY HAPPENED. GRAFF STICKS WITH YOU. ITS A DISEASE YOU CANT CURE. YOU WILL NEVER STOP LOOKING AT WHO IS UP OR EVEN WRITING YOUR NAME WHILE BORED AT WORK. 20'S IS LATE BUT THOSE GUYS HAVE TO KNOW THAT IT IS NOW A FELONY. SOMETIME WE GOT OFF WITH A BITCHING AT BY THE COPS AND HAD GEAR TAKEN AND TOLD TO GO HOME. SOMETIME WE WERE ARRESTED AND HAD TO CALL MOM AND DAD. IT WOULD BE STUPID TO HAVE TO SIT IN A CELL WITH SOME GANGBANGER WHO JUST SHOT SOMEONE AND TELL HIM YOU GOT POPPED FOR WRITING. CALLING WORK THE NEXT DAY AND TELLING THEM YOU WONT BE IN BECAUSE YOU ARE IN JAIL FOR DOING A THROWIE ON THE SIDE OF A HIGHWAY. POINT BEING IS THAT THE SEED SHOULD BE IMPLANTED EARLY (AGAIN, OPINION). GOING TO EVENTS AND SEEING SOME YOUNG DUDE GETTING A BOOK SIGNED FROM A PERSON WHO WAS IN THE GAME LONG TIME AGO IS GREAT. IN MY BLACK BOOK, IT SAYS "OLD SCHOOL ALL STARS" THAT WAS WROTE IN THE 80'S BEFORE WE WERE EVEN OLD SCHOOL. WAS EITHER MITE, PROVE OR SCAM THAT WROTE IT. AND AS LONG AS WE BREATHE, WE WILL NEVER STOP DROPPING HISTORY. SORRY FOR THIS BOOK..PEACE...MAD CREW
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SayweezyAOM
Gold Dot

105 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2009 :  08:20:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great post Reem! That's the point I was trying to get at. It just seems to me that since graffiti has become so commercialized, and desensitized to the masses you see more and more of a 'mature' crowd dipping their feet in the graff pool. No disrespect, and this is just an opinion, but I find it very annoying. In my experiences with these new but old writers it's like they have this idea that if they jock a well known writer in the game hard enough they(the new but old writer) feel they have some of their street cred. For example, if someone who were to meet Wer, arguably one of the best bombers to have ever blessed the streets of Chicago with smackers, said new writer would feel like they have the same reputation.

I guess what I'm seeing, and again just an opinion and no disrespect, is more and more of these late start writers feel graffiti is more about the click you run with than actually getting up.

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S1
Administrator (NYC Fat Cap)

USA
308 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2009 :  09:27:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You want to hear one more thought on this?

Times are always hard. Old times were harder than new times. However they are always hard, just different circumstances. When it all "started" here, it didn't really start....it had always been...you follow? It was just that it manifested itself in a cultural revolution of youth translating their thoughts and feelings, feelings that were put into words, those words put on walls...thus creating a type of graffiti.
Now this graffiti was always around, even before it "started," circa 1982-83 (hiphop style.) Prior to that, there had been the gang graffiti of the 1970's (I know all the Chi-town heads know this), prior to that there had been the political graffiti of the 1960's (Democratic Convention riots of 1965(?)) You can look that all up on internet these days. Even some of us older guys wont remember that too much. Then there is the graffiti of the 1950's, mostly during the post war sexual revolution and the hobo's that travelled the country on empty freight cars in groups. I think we've seen evidence of this in various graff books. I can keep going with this, but I think you get the drift.

Now if one looks at all these movements, they were either started by or they were carried on by....wait for it....wait for it....."THE YOUTH!"
That my friends, is the key. Now you guys have hit this nail on the head. I admire your awareness and am glad that some of us actually think about intelligent topics.

So AOM, your question seems valid. REEM you're there too. Youth is a wonderful, fleeting moment in all our lives and it consists of several elements which someone in their 20's has less and less of.

May I explain those to you?

Firstly, for a male teen, testosterone seems to be the magic bullet, heck even for females, because we know that some of the female bombers always had bigger balls then regular girls, right? (That's a whole different topic!) But puberty combined with rebellion which ensues from our raging against authority which actually derives from raging against our parents is what drives the wonderful world of graffiti. Now some of those kids have extra elements which contribute to their intensity in the game. Some kids have criminal minds, some kids are rich, some kids are stupid, some are pretty boys and girls. But most of them don't have jobs or money.....ahhhhh, I see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Some1 starting the game in there 20's, ain't gonna have the time or the rage that a kid in his/her teens have. Now I'm not saying that they cant' do it, I'm just saying the intensity isn't the same, the comittment to bucking the system isn't there. Besides, if you're from this city, you know better. You know that you'll get pinched. So I'll stick my neck out there and say that someone starting the game in their 20's, is not from here. He's from the cornfields and he came here and found city life so cool, he finds his ghetto friends so cool, that he wants to be "it." He wants to be urban, he wants to write on stuff, maybe most of all, he wants to rage against the cornfields.

But the reality is this, it is costly to live here now. You HAVE TO HAVE A JOB!!!! So this takes away from having the time to really make a dent in the graff scene. Right?....Wrong! As I pointed out earlier, graff over the generations, has taken on new faces....I left off at the 1980's. The 1990's became the artistic groove and p walls, now the 2000's have been all www. Graff has taken on a new form again...it's all digital. Now there is still defacing of public/private property...that will always be. But people are taking it to cyber world.

That's fresh.

But it has created a clear division between people that put their time in doing it illegally and those who now do it as a legal living. Now for a person to begin to do it illegally in the mid 20's again sounds like cornfield business to me, but not always. Someone starting illegal graff in their mid 20's seems like someone who has a fleeting fantasy about being a bad boy...someone who won't pass the test of time...as AOM stated, this is a case of the trendy's again. Now a real old dawg already knows all the tricks, but an old dawg sees no use in half of them, because as you get older, you streamline your life and get rid of the tricks you have no use for. Writing on walls is one of them.

Again, this creates an even shorter graff lifespan for a person starting in their 20's.
If that person is a true bomber, they will find newer, more unique ways of getting up....I have more on this subject, but let's talk about this for now.

S1





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SayweezyAOM
Gold Dot

105 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2009 :  2:09:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by S1
Some1 starting the game in there 20's, ain't gonna have the time or the rage that a kid in his/her teens have.



quote:
Originally posted by S1
But the reality is this, it is costly to live here now. You HAVE TO HAVE A JOB!!!!




This is what I'm talking about. I just can understand how someone in their mid 20's wouldn't be more worried about making money, a living, a future. Don't get me wrong I love graffiti, I fell in love with her when I was about 8 years old. Riding the lines with my grandma, looking at how MUL and AIR would crush, or DC5 and TNS. Early to mid 90's. But I've also grown up, I haven't lost my love for graffiti, but I've found new loves. And one of those happens to be my career choice in higher learning and education. Yeah if I'm on a train or bus and I have a sharp tool, I'll bust a scribe, if I'm free on a Sunday morning I'll hit up a freight yard or two. But this is all because that passion is in me, and has been since I was 15/16. I couldn't stop even if I wanted to. I can't be into the lifestyle as much as I liked to anymore, sadly. So the rooftops, the tunnels, the ********, the ********, and other unmentionables have taken a back seat.....for now.

I like your take on the progression of 'Graffiti' S1, from the days of post WWII, to Abbie Hoffman's riots during the Democratic conventions, to Hip-Hop, to eBombing. That's another topic I'd like to hear your guys opinions on, but again another topic for another day.

I'm kind of lost in thought right now so I'll stop here. Thanks for your insight S1. These have all been great posts. I look forward to reading more of these responses. Peace brothas, and have a great weeekend.

-SayerOne


Edited by - SayweezyAOM on 11/06/2009 2:11:18 PM
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Sy
Administrator (NYC Fat Cap)

Cyprus
3975 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2009 :  5:42:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I LOVE TOPICS LIKE THIS....KEEPS THE MIND RIGHT AND I THINK ALL OF YOU HAVE GOOD VALID POINTS...MY QUESTION IS THIS: IF A PERSON STARTS WRITING IN THERE MID 20'S OR SO ARE THEY CONSIDER NEW OLDSCHOOL OR OLD NEWSCHOOL?

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SayweezyAOM
Gold Dot

105 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2009 :  8:07:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would argue the term 'old school' refers to a specific era in graffiti, in this sense, not a persons age. So a writer starting their career in their 20's and above would be referred to as a HIPSTER! Just kidding, but not really. Seriously though, I would have to say old newschool.

Maybe a group of 20somethingers should start writing and start a crew, and call it TBLK, The Bucket List Kids, or Those Boys Later Kame. Just kidding, Peace.
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REEM
Orange Dot

USA
660 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2009 :  06:43:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would say the definition of Old School would not be defined by age of said person but the year one started (again opinion). It's iffy because say some cat starts TODAY, 20 years from now, he or she will be an "old schooler". What does that make us old timers, part of The Geritol Era? Good question Sy, this one has me stumped. Maybe a Middle Schooler. Peace....MAD CREW
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S1
Administrator (NYC Fat Cap)

USA
308 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2009 :  10:38:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sy

I LOVE TOPICS LIKE THIS....KEEPS THE MIND RIGHT AND I THINK ALL OF YOU HAVE GOOD VALID POINTS...MY QUESTION IS THIS: IF A PERSON STARTS WRITING IN THERE MID 20'S OR SO ARE THEY CONSIDER NEW OLDSCHOOL OR OLD NEWSCHOOL?


Well, in our genre of hiphop graffiti, anybody starting now is new school, or lets just say "green." If we created a timeline of hiphop graff in Chicago, dating back to 81-82 until now, I think we'd have a better understanding. I can't wait until I'm eighty and writing on this website about newschoolers.....Oh, I guess I can wait.

S1





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SayweezyAOM
Gold Dot

105 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2009 :  6:06:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can feel these arguements, and I guess being younger I was quick to jump 'the old school' era of grafito. I totally agree now with what Reem had to say, old school is a term earned through years of putting in work. So you, my brothas, who have steadily kept up and more so helped out with the progression of graffiti have earned the title of "Old Skool", see what I did there? With the "k" in school. Just kidding. But really 'old school' is a term that means you've been rocking for a decade plus! That's awesome. So to call a new jack 'old school' because of their age just isn't fitting. So if someone decides to begin a graffiti career in their 20's by their 30's/40's is when they'd be considered old school.

This topic has been very insightful, and I really do appreciate all of your guys responses/reactions, opinions, and personal history on the topic. Thank you, I'm glad you guys have been attracted to the topic. I've been a big fan of this website for a while so the last thing I'd want to do is bore you with some moronic topic. Peace brothas, and stay up!
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S1
Administrator (NYC Fat Cap)

USA
308 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2009 :  8:17:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Let's talk...evolution of graff.......

S1





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DREMONE
Gold Dot

103 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2009 :  01:53:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anything b4 1990(oldschool),1990-1997(middleschool),1998-present(newschool)
Just my opinion.
I from dee middle skool!

IF YOU GET STARTED AT AN OLD AGE, THEN U JUST A OLD CRUSTY NEWSCHOOLER!!!

It's all about the era u rocked in.
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REEM
Orange Dot

USA
660 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2009 :  05:59:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
LOL. WORD^^. CANT GO SHPPING FOR MONTANA CANS WITH A RASCAL OR BOMBING. PEACE...MAD CREW
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Sy
Administrator (NYC Fat Cap)

Cyprus
3975 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2009 :  12:21:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SayweezyAOM

I can feel these arguements, and I guess being younger I was quick to jump 'the old school' era of grafito. I totally agree now with what Reem had to say, old school is a term earned through years of putting in work. So you, my brothas, who have steadily kept up and more so helped out with the progression of graffiti have earned the title of "Old Skool", see what I did there? With the "k" in school. Just kidding. But really 'old school' is a term that means you've been rocking for a decade plus! That's awesome. So to call a new jack 'old school' because of their age just isn't fitting. So if someone decides to begin a graffiti career in their 20's by their 30's/40's is when they'd be considered old school.

This topic has been very insightful, and I really do appreciate all of your guys responses/reactions, opinions, and personal history on the topic. Thank you, I'm glad you guys have been attracted to the topic. I've been a big fan of this website for a while so the last thing I'd want to do is bore you with some moronic topic. Peace brothas, and stay up!







EXACTLY....GOOD THREAD PROPS!

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Sy
Administrator (NYC Fat Cap)

Cyprus
3975 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2009 :  12:25:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by S1

Let's talk...evolution of graff.......










HOW BOUT GRAFF EVOLUTION IN THE CHI...I'LL BUST OUT THE SUBWAY SPY PIC FROM 1976.

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SEEN-ABC
Moderator

USA
3900 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2009 :  6:34:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit SEEN-ABC's Homepage  Reply with Quote
yo all talking about how we all got start it can be 10,15,20 we are doing are thing and that's to get up !!! like i know just to put out there from the 75's,85's is old school 89's99's middlschool 2000 is the present of graf for all of us baby......

yo do your thing ..... piece seenabc


quote:
Originally posted by DREMONE

Anything b4 1990(oldschool),1990-1997(middleschool),1998-present(newschool)
Just my opinion.
I from dee middle skool!

IF YOU GET STARTED AT AN OLD AGE, THEN U JUST A OLD CRUSTY NEWSCHOOLER!!!

It's all about the era u rocked in.


"IT TAKES COURAGE & IMAGINATION TO SET NEW DESIGN TRENDS-TO CREATE THE TRENDS ONESELF RATHER THAN FOLLOWING THE FLOW!"
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DREMONE
Gold Dot

103 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2009 :  04:24:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
O.K.
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